San Francisco Attorney Magazine

Winter 2024

Reaching Across the Generation Gap: How We Can Work Smarter Together in our Post-COVID World

KGWoods headshot 2021_pp

By Kathleen Guthrie Woods

Kathleen Guthrie Woods is a long-time contributor to San Francisco Attorney magazine. Previous articles include “Tips for Refreshing Your Networking Skills” (Spring 2023) and “How to Become a Superior Court Judge” (Winter 2022).

The term “quiet quitting” first entered our lexicon in 2022. Merriam-Webster defines it as “the practice of doing the minimum of work required for one’s job,” but you get different interpretations when you talk to members of different generations. Ask members of Gen X or Baby Boomers, who hustled to achieve their professional ambitions and are now in supervising and managing roles, and they may view the practice as nothing less than laziness. Millennials and Gen Zers, having observed their parents and mentors, view it as setting authentic work-life boundaries to avoid feeling exploited and collapsing under the inevitable burnout. Our current generational gap lies between these poles.

“We’re wired differently,” said Michael Sweet (Gen X), who interacts with associates as Office Managing Partner and Chair of the Financial Restructuring and Bankruptcy Department for Fox Rothschild. It’s critical, he said, to stop, engage, and have meaningful dialogues with each other, so that we can meet clients’ needs and our own.

While our work culture feels like it changes constantly—with new laws, technology, terminology, and day-to-day operations—let’s get better acquainted, explore how we can best embrace and learn from those changes, and move forward together.

COVID changed everything.

When COVID descended on our world in early 2020, we all had to pivot, and the generation gap seemed to widen as we adapted to remote learning and working. “We had a rude awakening,” said Janina Engo (Gen Z), who earned her bachelor of arts degree in 2022—a mostly virtual experience—and joined BASF as Communications Assistant in 2023. “Our work had to be remote. We had to make it work.” That also means now is a critical learning period for people just launching their careers. Among them are those students who started law school in 2021, who just graduated and passed the bar. They’ve missed out on opportunities for mentoring and networking.

Fully remote work was challenging for established workers too. “Older people—in their 60s and 70s—struggled with the tech at first,” Sweet said. “Then they got comfortable and realized they could do everything at home.” Now with many employers moving back into offices, with a mix of full-time and hybrid schedules, we’re again having to experiment with a new “normal.”

“I find my job—especially management—is easier and so much more efficient and healthier if there’s in-person engagement,” said Mark Conrad (Gen X), a Founding Partner of Conrad Metlitzky Kane. In the same breath, he said, “I also recognize younger people can do their work from home and save themselves the one-and-a-half-hour commute.”

There’s no good or bad, right or wrong way to do things. The conflicts inherent in generation gaps don’t need to be permanent. We just need to find—and implement—the balance to serve work and life.

Expectations shift with every generation entering the workforce.

“The ethos and expectations were that your professional life was primary and that—especially in the legal industry where client service is the name of the game—if your client needed service, it was incumbent upon you to provide that,” Conrad said, describing his experience right out of law school. “People took pride and satisfaction in meeting those demands. It’s sort of the water you swim in.”

Lin Chan (Gen X), a Partner at Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, observed and listened to the role models in her family. “My parents worked very hard,” she said, and she was taught that she would encounter additional challenges because of her background. “I expected to work my butt off and not be treated fairly,” she said. “My expectations growing up in the ’80s and ’90s were very tied up with my race and gender. I would be discriminated against, so I would have to work harder.” The expectations of hard work were reinforced in law school. “My law professors were extremely hard-working, they worked long hours. That was my example of what is excellence.”

Sweet was quick to point out that Gen X’s role models were far from perfect. “We’re not as hard-charging as the Baby Boomers who trained us,” he said, noting that in-office conditions have improved since then. “There’s no screaming, no hazing, no three-martini lunches.”

“When I was an associate, we’d talk among ourselves about wanting balance and the demands placed on us, but we wouldn’t articulate them,” said Conrad. “People now are more candid in a way that’s healthier for all.”

With each generation, the kids are watching—and deciding they want to do things differently. “I grew up traditional,” said Claire Machado (Gen Z), a Post-Bar Law Clerk who joined Solano County Alternate Public Defender’s Office in September. “Mom worked full-time before having children, then stayed at home. Dad worked full-time.” But some of her mom’s friends were attorneys, and to Machado, they seemed to have a good work-life balance. Machado was encouraged, “just knowing it was possible."

Gen Z can teach Gen X how to set and hold boundaries.

“I saw a quote, maybe on TikTok, so I’m paraphrasing,” said Engo: “‘The only people who noticed you worked all those hours are the people who missed you at home.’” Each of the Gen Zers interviewed spoke to their intentions to “work smarter, not harder,” a practice many of us have given lip service to, but still need to put into action.

In the 1980s, when Gen Xers were entering the workforce, ambition and conspicuous consumption were driving forces behind professional expectations. Being “first in, last out” at the office to get noticed by the boss, accumulating the most billable hours, and similar hard-driving tactics were encouraged for achievement. There’s still value to be found there.

But that work ethic had its dark side too. The children of Gen X, who are now carving their own paths, witnessed the costs: long hours, skipped vacations, taking work stress home on weekends. Burnout was inevitable.

Early in her career, Arshpreet Multani (Gen Z), a Communications Coordinator at BASF since June 2021, was hard on herself. “I was in the office ‘9 to 5,’”said Multani, “but I took my work home with me, wanting to be perfect and spending hours working on projects for higher-ups.” A turning point came when she noticed burnout was impacting her creativity and productivity. She took a hard look at herself and began setting healthier boundaries. “It doesn’t come naturally,” she said. She had to teach herself to take small steps—like shutting off her laptop and “snoozing” Slack notifications so they don’t ping on her phone after 5:00 pm—and being persistent and consistent. “Talking about it now, I’ve come so far,” she said.

Throughout her career, Chan learned to evolve and adapt by observing the differences in each generational gap—and respecting them. “Gen Z wants wellness,” she said, and she’s seen this in “the way they clock out and tell you they’re clocking out. More asking for forgiveness rather than [asking for] permission. They will tell you ‘I’m tired’ after a deposition, ‘I’m going to take some time.’”

“The work is never-ending,” said Machado, and she’s still figuring out how to make the most of the ebb and flow, getting work done so she can take breaks as well as making time for doing what makes her feel good. “You get the work done, and you get it done well. Then turn it off and don’t stress about it,” she said. “That’s a big Gen Z thing.”

“Work will still be there in the morning. Email will still be there,” said Endo, and she practices setting boundaries by letting other people know the hours she’s working. “With social media, I try to not reach out or message after hours. It’s being respectful of their time.” A lesson from an undergraduate interpersonal communications class has stuck with her. “I learned ‘No’ is a full sentence,” she said, “and boundaries are more for yourself than for the other person.”

Gen X can teach Gen Z how to fill professional and personal gaps with mentoring and networking.

While being in the office is not necessary for everyday work, in-person interactions are essential for successful networking and mentoring. “I grew up as an attorney in Munger, Tolles & Olson, where older attorneys were dedicated to developing talent,” said Conrad. Senior attorneys were expected to serve as examples and share their wisdom and experience.

“It’s really small things that you see people do, their daily habits,” Machado said, “like seeing them enjoying their lives and still being a badass attorney.” One badass, Machado’s mentor in her first internship, also addressed the habits that could negatively affect a young person. “She was really open about imposter syndrome [an affliction mentioned frequently by Gen Zers], and she taught me how to get over it,” Machado said.

The level of intimacy needed for these honest conversations won’t happen over Zoom. Each person interviewed offered suggestions for how to make the most of in-office days. “If the time you have in the office together is limited, don’t just sit at your desk. Concentrate on taking advantage of that 15-minute coffee or lunch break,” said Conrad. He recommends coming prepared with ways to spark conversations. “Be curious. Have specific questions. Ask about my favorite trial, my favorite client,” he said. “People love to tell stories.”

Sweet recalls the impact in-house interactions had on his associate years. “If I stayed past 7 pm, they bought you dinner. My best non–case specific learnings happened in the kitchen.” Over Indian, Italian, or sushi (“Half the fun of it was who got to the menus first,” said Sweet), a couple of partners regaled associates with war stories, with insights into people and cases in various disciplines. “It provided opportunities to engage in casual, nonjudgmental ways,” said Sweet. “Some of my closest relationships today started with people sitting in the kitchen.”

Clear and open communication is always the key.

Chan, whose interactions with associates increased after she became a partner, adjusted her supervising style based on what she learned from Millennials and Gen Zers. “Camaraderie, friendship comes first, then the feedback,” she said. “I came to understand that.”

“If you really want to have a team that is holistically balanced, you need to meet halfway, so attorneys are working at their best and meeting the clients’ needs,” Conrad added. And that requires a real commitment to communication. Chan advised being open and flexible, and Machado encouraged empathy and active listening for all ages. “There’s space to do it differently,” she said, so everyone—now and in future generations—can truly work smarter, not harder.

Ad

Who’s who

Gen X: born 1965–1980

Millennial: 1981–1996

Gen Z: 1997–2010